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Post by Beckett on Nov 13, 2017 19:05:43 GMT -5
Well, mkarrett, if it did speak to you, I'd think you'd be afraid ... very afraid.  That would be intriguing though. |
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Post by thegenii on Nov 13, 2017 22:55:12 GMT -5
"They're coming to get you, Barbara."
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Post by phill on Nov 19, 2017 14:20:39 GMT -5
Some correspondence with concierge which included an inquiry about interactivity of the artifact. Their response was...
"The interactivity of the artifact has changed throughout the design process, evolving into what you received, some elements of interactivity became untenable." Kind of obvious, but I thought I would share what little of an answer I could glean. I never even received a response to my query asking about the difference between the original description and the finished item. Sadly one of several times MPC has failed to respond to enquiries. BTW - by 'some' elements of interactivity, read 'all'! |
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Post by professor on Nov 26, 2017 14:47:55 GMT -5
I never even received a response to my query asking about the difference between the original description and the finished item. Sadly one of several times MPC has failed to respond to enquiries. BTW - by 'some' elements of interactivity, read 'all'! For the record, I never did get a reply to my inquiry either. |
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Post by Katalia on Dec 1, 2017 12:38:04 GMT -5
I never even received a response to my query asking about the difference between the original description and the finished item. Sadly one of several times MPC has failed to respond to enquiries. BTW - by 'some' elements of interactivity, read 'all'! For the record, I never did get a reply to my inquiry either. If anyone is interested I did push for more answers. Some of the email pertained to my personal situation (I never received the reveal). So I'm only including the parts that are relevant. the Filigree in Shadow story is by far the most labour-intensive story we have attempted to date, and to say this meant having all of our creative and production people working extremely hard, for very long hours, is in no way an overstatement. I would agree that letting you know there was a change would absolutely have been appropriate, but with everything else going on, it simply got away from us, and for that I sincerely apologize.
I feel it may be useful to underline that the Filigree story was not offered as a completed experience on our site, introduced as a new product for our members' consumption, but rather as the subject of a Kickstarter campaign. When one backs such a campaign for a new product as you so generously did, they are not just ordering something from a catalog - they are tacitly agreeing to become a patron of what we do, supporting a process that involves artists, writers, designers and craftspeople, as they work, singly and in teams, over many months to create a unique storytelling experience. With this there must be some latitude: in the process things will be tried, and if they don't work, solutions will be found and other avenues chosen. This was the case with the artifact in this story. When my colleague previously referred to how "some elements of interactivity became untenable" she was saying that the creative team and our production folks, despite a valiant effort, could not be satisfied with that extra interactive bit mentioned in the campaign. It would not do to send out something with which they were not pleased, and so the result was the artifact you now have: a piece we still hold to be beautiful and compelling, and interactive nonetheless. Unlike some of our artifacts, which are designed perhaps to be viewed from a remove, the Filigree artifact is made to be picked up and held, and with code on it to be deciphered! |
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Post by madamez on Dec 1, 2017 14:00:34 GMT -5
For the record, I never did get a reply to my inquiry either. If anyone is interested I did push for more answers. Some of the email pertained to my personal situation (I never received the reveal). So I'm only including the parts that are relevant. the Filigree in Shadow story is by far the most labour-intensive story we have attempted to date, and to say this meant having all of our creative and production people working extremely hard, for very long hours, is in no way an overstatement. I would agree that letting you know there was a change would absolutely have been appropriate, but with everything else going on, it simply got away from us, and for that I sincerely apologize.
I feel it may be useful to underline that the Filigree story was not offered as a completed experience on our site, introduced as a new product for our members' consumption, but rather as the subject of a Kickstarter campaign. When one backs such a campaign for a new product as you so generously did, they are not just ordering something from a catalog - they are tacitly agreeing to become a patron of what we do, supporting a process that involves artists, writers, designers and craftspeople, as they work, singly and in teams, over many months to create a unique storytelling experience. With this there must be some latitude: in the process things will be tried, and if they don't work, solutions will be found and other avenues chosen. This was the case with the artifact in this story. When my colleague previously referred to how "some elements of interactivity became untenable" she was saying that the creative team and our production folks, despite a valiant effort, could not be satisfied with that extra interactive bit mentioned in the campaign. It would not do to send out something with which they were not pleased, and so the result was the artifact you now have: a piece we still hold to be beautiful and compelling, and interactive nonetheless. Unlike some of our artifacts, which are designed perhaps to be viewed from a remove, the Filigree artifact is made to be picked up and held, and with code on it to be deciphered! I never received a reply to either of my inquiries either and I take so much issue with their response above. I’m furious with MPC right now. No, there was no “tacit” agreement. The interactivity of the artifact was hugely promoted in the Kickstarter and they never stated that the feature was subject to REMOVAL. But now they’re saying they hadn’t even fully vetted the idea first? And then oops, it just slipped their minds to inform their backers? It’s not like this is a solo creator with extremely limited resources and manpower at their disposal. Or their first Kickstarter. They’ve lost me as a future backer and as a customer in general. |
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Post by Katalia on Dec 1, 2017 14:31:11 GMT -5
I never received a reply to either of my inquiries either and I take so much issue with their response above. I’m furious with MPC right now. No, there was no “tacit” agreement. The interactivity of the artifact was hugely promoted in the Kickstarter and they never stated that the feature was subject to REMOVAL. But now they’re saying they hadn’t even fully vetted the idea first? And then oops, it just slipped their minds to inform their backers? It’s not like this is a solo creator with extremely limited resources and manpower at their disposal. Or their first Kickstarter. They’ve lost me as a future backer and as a customer in general. Yeah it can be difficult to get a reply from them, especially when the situation is less than ideal. I follow up every few days until I get a response when I insist on one. I'm sure most of them get anxiety when they see my email address come up now. I mostly agree with you, if they ever do another kickstarter I will not back it. It bothers me that they still haven't even made an update on the kickstarter page since most of the backers are still probably in the dark about it. Nevermind not responding to most people who have asked about it. I also find it frustrating that the campaign said "Filigree in shadow is currently ready to go into production; the tale has been written and all of the artifacts and other physical items have been designed and prototyped." It's inconsistent and I don't know what to believe. |
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Post by dmikester on Dec 1, 2017 16:37:22 GMT -5
I'm not defending them in any way, but if you look on the Dread Holidays thread here, a number of us uncovered some disheartening info, namely that the MPC is no longer run by the main face of the company and has likely been sold to another group of people. Tim Sullivan, who was almost certainly the original Curator and did interviews on behalf of the company, is according to LinkedIn no longer with them as of September of this year, which directly coincides with when Filigree first started to ship. There are also many employees who just started with the company this past summer, including pretty much all of their marketing staff. I would guess that there is a lot not being conveyed in this response, namely that there were serious creative differences and/or financial troubles that led them to have major personnel changes and I'm sure those issues directly affected Filigree. Don't forget that they missed their deadline of the first mailing going out in April by close to five months!
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Post by Katalia on Dec 1, 2017 16:57:13 GMT -5
I'm not defending them in any way, but if you look on the Dread Holidays thread here, a number of us uncovered some disheartening info, namely that the MPC is no longer run by the main face of the company and has likely been sold to another group of people. Tim Sullivan, who was almost certainly the original Curator and did interviews on behalf of the company, is according to LinkedIn no longer with them as of September of this year, which directly coincides with when Filigree first started to ship. There are also many employees who just started with the company this past summer, including pretty much all of their marketing staff. I would guess that there is a lot not being conveyed in this response, namely that there were serious creative differences and/or financial troubles that led them to have major personnel changes and I'm sure those issues directly affected Filigree. Don't forget that they missed their deadline of the first mailing going out in April by close to five months! Ehh delays are a standard of kickstarter. I don't think I've backed a single project that was on time. So when there were delays I didn't think much of it. It started shipping a lot earlier than I really expected personally. But that revelation does give a bit more to consider. |
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Post by dmikester on Dec 1, 2017 18:27:27 GMT -5
Oh of course with Kickstarter delays; I just got a Kickstarter product that I backed four years ago! But as you quoted, they claimed that they were ready to go into production (and consider that they knew exactly how many items to produce based on the Kickstarter), and then there was a pretty huge delay (it was just under a year from when the campaign was launched to when the first mailings were shipped). One thing that I assume caused some of the delay is that the story had to change once the Artifact changed. I'm somewhat amazed that they included what I assume was an out of context picture of what the Artifact was originally going to be able to do, namely be worn hands-free and be connected to a device that would act as a stereoscope holder of some kind. Also, the more that I think about it, the jigsaw puzzle was so incongruous that a cynical part of me wonders if they commissioned it once they realized that the Artifact wasn't going to work as planned and felt that they needed some kind of "interactivity" in the Experience. Of course, none of this excuses a total lack of communication with customers (which continues to this day). |
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Post by craigrj on Dec 2, 2017 9:45:09 GMT -5
Have you tried getting an answer from their Facebook page??? I gave it a go and ended up with a stock response telling me to email the concierge...
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Post by stupidstupiddan on Dec 4, 2017 8:04:54 GMT -5
So I was ready to let the whole "lack of interactivity" thing go until I read that response.
The fact that the artifact interacting with pieces of the puzzle was so important that, they actually included more pieces as a stretch goal, but then decided to just do away with it is almost a breach of contract.
If you back something with the expectation that it DOES something, but you receive it and it does nothing...when you write to complain, the answer shouldn't be "we couldn't figure it out".
No. According to what we paid for, it's your damn job to figure it out. I don't care if it ends up costing you a little bit extra. That's the risk you take with Kickstarter.
We take the risk that things might vary slightly in the final product, ship dates, etc. You take the risk that you didn't get something 100% correct in your full production analysis. You still owe us what's promised.
This is why I will no longer back anything the MPC puts on KS. They've proved to me that they cannot fulfill their obligations. So, I will no longer be giving them an influx of cash to hold onto for a year.
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Post by thegenii on Dec 4, 2017 10:58:02 GMT -5
I wouldn't blame you, or anyone else, for complaining bitterly to Kickstarter: if the MPC's ability to use Kickstarter comes into question, they will be a lot more careful in the future. We would all benefit.
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Post by dmikester on Dec 4, 2017 11:44:18 GMT -5
In looking over Kickstarter's terms of use and general rules, as I suspected, there's nothing that Kickstarter itself can do, as once the project is funded, it becomes the responsibility of the seller to communicate changes. Here, clearly the MPC did not communicate a fundamental change to the experience (and only did communicate it after serious complaints from backers), and as such, there's a (in my opinion not very strong) argument that they could be subject to legal action based on not delivering the product that we paid money for. Here are the relevant sections:
Kickstarter Rules (note here the wording "creators should be candid about what they plan to accomplish" here, which the MPC clearly did do initially
Projects must be honest and clearly presented.
Our community is built on trust and communication. Projects can’t mislead people or misrepresent facts, and creators should be candid about what they plan to accomplish. When a project involves manufacturing and distributing something complex, like a gadget, we require projects to show backers a prototype of what they’re making, and we prohibit photorealistic renderings.
How Projects Work
When a project is successfully funded, the creator must complete the project and fulfill each reward. Once a creator has done so, they’ve satisfied their obligation to their backers.
Throughout the process, creators owe their backers a high standard of effort, honest communication, and a dedication to bringing the project to life. At the same time, backers must understand that when they back a project, they’re helping to create something new — not ordering something that already exists. There may be changes or delays, and there’s a chance something could happen that prevents the creator from being able to finish the project as promised.
If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, they’ve failed to live up to the basic obligations of this agreement. To right this, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to the best possible conclusion for backers. A creator in this position has only remedied the situation and met their obligations to backers if:
- they post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned;
- they work diligently and in good faith to bring the project to the best possible conclusion in a timeframe that’s communicated to backers;
- they’re able to demonstrate that they’ve used funds appropriately and made every reasonable effort to complete the project as promised;
- they’ve been honest, and have made no material misrepresentations in their communication to backers; and
- they offer to return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward (in proportion to the amounts pledged), or else explain how those funds will be used to complete the project in some alternate form.
The creator is solely responsible for fulfilling the promises made in their project. If they’re unable to satisfy the terms of this agreement, they may be subject to legal action by backers.
I do think that the MPC worked "diligently and in good faith to bring the project to the best possible conclusion" given their creative woes. However, were they "honest," and did they make "no material misrepresentations in their communication to backers?" Pretty clearly not. If we're to complain to Kickstarter, I think we should bring up the How Projects Work section and not the Kickstarter Rules section.
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Post by Beckett on Dec 4, 2017 15:56:53 GMT -5
As far as the kickstarter campaign goes, the Company have definitely disregarded a great deal of their rules. There is, for example, the idea of prototyping any product subject to funding unless the campaign aims to create a prototype. The Company clearly had this in mind when they stated, in their original pitch, that "Filigree in Shadow is currently ready to go into production; the tale has been written and all of the artifacts and other physical items have been designed and prototyped". Apart from that, not fulfilling the stretch goals is probably a huge deal - after all, they are a way to entice people to raise their pledge to a higher level or even contribute a bit more without an extra reward to bring about that promised extra bit. As I see it the first two stretch goals remain unfulfilled, since "Real Blueprints" was supposed to "improve the authenticity of the mailing", which the (for the Mysterious Package Company) sub-par quality poster print to be completed with the puzzles certainly did not do, and of course "Obscura" promised to expand upon a functionality to "see the events of the story in a brand new light" that simply was not provided at all. All in all, these are not the typical difficulties of a kickstarter project, and the Company are, in my opinion, very aware of that. Do you remember the gentleman who, during the fulfillment of The Century Beast, raised the issue in the Sitting Room in the harshest of terms simply because his wife did not enjoy the Experience? If I recall right, that person received a full refund no questions asked. |
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Mar 1, 2020 11:20:08 GMT -5
Mar 1, 2020 11:20:08 GMT -5
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Mar 9, 2021 13:18:36 GMT -5