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Post by jtobcat on Feb 18, 2017 2:29:11 GMT -5
So my latest brainstorming session tonight came up with this theory. My mind is still stuck on the numbers being a book cipher and the choice of using libraries for all the locations is the hint we are supposed to use to get to that step, at least that is the only possible connection I have right now on why they picked libraries instead of anything else. Unfortunately all my attempts at extraction on the groups of libraries has yielded zero book titles, or anything that even resembles a word for me to even apply the numbers. At that point I started thinking about the steps we took so far to get us here and then began to wonder if the random letters for the web address was done on purpose? I mean, I'm sure if they tried they could have had the web address actually resolve to a real phrase. So I'm wondering if that's a hint about how to use the libraries. We basically got the web address by doing the reverse of the idiom acronym puzzle. We just took the first letter of each word to make the address. So I'm wondering if we are supposed to do the opposite of that to solve this? In other words, extract a letter from each library to get what looks like a random set of letters, but is in fact an acronym of a title of an article in the C&C's? There are 4 groupings of libraries and 4 chapters to the C&C, which would seem to mean one article from each issue is needed if this is true. Once we identify the correct article, we use the number above to extract that numbered word in the article (or letter) to spell a phrase or word. There are a bunch of 4,7 and 8 word titles of articles so this could be plausible. The only problem is, my quick simple letter extractions don't line up to any article titles yet. (Though I may attempt a brute force method and just copy the 1,15,44 and 72 word from each 4,7, and 8 word titled article and see if any can be strung together logically)
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Post by phraca on Feb 18, 2017 5:22:49 GMT -5
I still haven't made any progress although I try to brainstorm some ideas every few days. I've been fixating on the number headings for a while now, and trying to determine whether they have a direct relation to the locations beneath them or they are simply extra information aesthetically interspersed. Some thoughts in no particular order: - The vault key has 5 letters, but there are only 4 headings, That suggests that the Harvest Time puzzle isn't a letter-based puzzle (e.g., each section drawing a letter shape or something like that).
- The four heading numbers are probably not an IP address, although they are all within valid range to be (the IP address 15.72.1.44 resolves to HP in Palo Alto, CA).
- The four heading numbers aren't in the right range to suitably represent LAT/LONG positions.
- The four heading numbers lack a prefix that would make them UTM grid coordinates.
- The largest number, 72, is greater than the number of coordinates (8) or words (24) in the 72 section.
- The largest number, 72, is greater than the number of seconds in a minute, and minutes in an hour (or degree).
- None of the numbers are prime.
Good thoughts! My leading theory is still that the next step is to physically visit they libraries (see spoilered post above), but in the spirit of brainstorming I'll add my thoughts to some of yours: "The vault key has 5 letters, but there are only 4 headings, That suggests that the Harvest Time puzzle isn't a letter-based puzzle (e.g., each section drawing a letter shape or something like that" Agree with this. The fact there are not 5 of anything indicates this is a multi-step puzzle. Also note that Sundial is the only day lock to not have a lock symbol below it in the vault and is the last lock shown on the codex. (Interesting that the codex shows a "?" then the 4 issues as inputs. Assuming this is a reference to the pictogram and the 4 titles to get the web address, but may also point to jtobcat's theory above.) "Number heading observations" Good observations on the 4 numbers, here are mine, randomly: -Could the four sections relate to the 4 missives? The missives are not shown on the codex and were relatively underused (the 4 vault keys didn't factor into any other puzzles, IIRC) -There are a total of 26 locations (like the # of letters in the alphabet) in groupings of 4, 8, 7, and 7. Haven't figured out a way to group the letters into 4 groups of those sizes. -Could the 4 numbers represent ordinals? (The 15th, 72nd, 1st, and 44th of something). I looked at: -Chemical elements (P-Phosphorus, HF-Hafnium, H-Hydrogen, Ru-Ruthenium) -Academy Awards (1st in 1927/1928 ... 72nd in 1999) Nothing common between best pictures or best cinematographies -Letter of alphabet (looping around after 26 ) - O, T, A, P -Tied to previous puzzles with at least 72 letters/elements? -Trophy lock letters (crossfire) - N, G, T, O -Hawthorne coin code (at top of page) - B, T, T, E -Diagramless crossword letters - O, O, T, G -Crostic - T, N, N, O -Bingo - B, O, B, N |
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Post by phraca on Feb 18, 2017 5:57:17 GMT -5
So my latest brainstorming session tonight came up with this theory. My mind is still stuck on the numbers being a book cipher and the choice of using libraries for all the locations is the hint we are supposed to use to get to that step, at least that is the only possible connection I have right now on why they picked libraries instead of anything else. Unfortunately all my attempts at extraction on the groups of libraries has yielded zero book titles, or anything that even resembles a word for me to even apply the numbers. At that point I started thinking about the steps we took so far to get us here and then began to wonder if the random letters for the web address was done on purpose? I mean, I'm sure if they tried they could have had the web address actually resolve to a real phrase. So I'm wondering if that's a hint about how to use the libraries. We basically got the web address by doing the reverse of the idiom acronym puzzle. We just took the first letter of each word to make the address. So I'm wondering if we are supposed to do the opposite of that to solve this? In other words, extract a letter from each library to get what looks like a random set of letters, but is in fact an acronym of a title of an article in the C&C's? There are 4 groupings of libraries and 4 chapters to the C&C, which would seem to mean one article from each issue is needed if this is true. Once we identify the correct article, we use the number above to extract that numbered word in the article (or letter) to spell a phrase or word. There are a bunch of 4,7 and 8 word titles of articles so this could be plausible. The only problem is, my quick simple letter extractions don't line up to any article titles yet. (Though I may attempt a brute force method and just copy the 1,15,44 and 72 word from each 4,7, and 8 word titled article and see if any can be strung together logically) Good thoughts. The choice of libraries seems odd. Why use these particular ones, ranging from Library of Congress all the way down to tiny ones in rural Canada? I found a few different lists of libraries (libraries.org seemed the most thorough), and none of the lists included all 26. Also, why not more international ones? Why are they scattered across US and Canada (mostly), but a few are down the street from each other? These observations, plus the fact that they are all open to the public points to the need to visit them to make progress on this (another plug for my post above!). In terms of the web address, I think it would be very difficult to resolve it into a complete phrase, given that the 4 titles are real titles/phrases. You could maybe work in 1 or 2 real titles, but I think you would have to make up the other ones. I also strongly suspect the four sections relate to the four issues (see codex) and I like your idea. I also did some quick searches in the 4th issues to see if any of the "3words" from the 4th section were hidden in the articles. It would be very possible to write articles around those words and could further explain why some of the locations are slightly off. Maybe the closest square had some really obscure words that would stand out... I haven't spent enough time searching for the words to do this theory justice, though. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I hope others will, as well. |
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Post by Todd on Feb 18, 2017 6:48:12 GMT -5
I don't like sharing thoughts that discourage attempts to solve a puzzle, but personally, I doubt this involves visiting physical libraries for several reasons. First, it would be nearly impossible for a single subscriber to visit all of these libraries, so it would require teamwork. But to shut down the Sitting Room, their official way of helping subscribers collaborate, and then putting out a puzzle requiring collaboration seems like poor planning. And then, if it is a book cipher with notes in library books, the question becomes what books? And how can MPC be sure the notes will still be there when the subscriber arrives? I doubt they would deface the books, and a piece of paper could easily be removed and discarded. Plus, libraries frequently have multiple copies of books. Would the note be inserted in every copy of the book? But what if it's a traditional book cipher, and we're looking at the actual printed words? Then, book ciphers typically have 2 or 3 numbers per word. We only currently have 4 numbers total provided with this puzzle. Finally, Volume 3 will remain available as a catch-up for a while. How solvable will this puzzle be without a group working on it? I don't want to discourage your efforts, just sharing my thoughts. The two things I have on my mind are, first: in addition to physical locations on a map, what3words actually assigns words based on longitude and latitude, which are expressed as degrees, minutes, and seconds. Harvest Time... Minutes and Seconds... It might mean something. It might also explain why some of the markers seem to be a bit off, because they needed to force certain values to make the solution work. And second, the misspelled name of the website in the title bar. While the actual URL is atfancdteoamot.com, the title bar shows the page title as atfancdmeoamot. An M instead of a T. And the fact that the domain name with the M was also registered, by the same anonymous web registrar in Toronto. And the misspelled domain was registered three months after the correctly spelled domain. June 2016 vs. March 2016... Until there's a full solution, all theories are worth investigating. These two are the ones that seem most promising to me, but I've chased my share of dead ends. |
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Post by phraca on Feb 18, 2017 7:41:14 GMT -5
Thanks for the feedback. With regards to your first point: Good points on the inability for someone to solve later on their own. I was thinking it could be similar to the bridge letter, but it does seem they have moved away from that model and have taken extra steps to allow others to do the puzzles later (e.g. reproducing key curios in the codex). OTOH, this looks to be the last puzzle and could be a "grand finale" of sorts. Also, once the puzzle was properly solved, they could always update the web page and alter the puzzle slightly to make it easier for others.
As far as visiting the libraries, maybe you can get the key info from just one? or one one from each section? For which books to look for, we have many books and authors that have been referenced in Volume 3 that would be good candidates. The thing that discourages me the most about this theory is the Library of Congress. Although open to the public, you have to get an ID made up to go in and security is tight. No backpacks are allowed and all your stuff has to go into a clear plastic bag. It would be risky to insert or remove anything from a book.
It's hard to prove/disprove this without visiting one. I will be driving through Pittsburgh in a few weeks, but I don't think the rest of the family will want to burn a few vacation hours looking through random books in a library. I like your other two theories also: I wrote off the typo on the title page originally, but the registration timing is interesting. Also strange that they have not yet corrected the web page if it is a typo. I assume they monitor this forum.
Also, I just noticed that the first two letters of the stacked titles are "AT" I focused on just the last letters to get the website, but could AT reference a twitter handle or email address? I tried every combination I could think of with correct and typo letters, "dotcom" vs. ".com" and didn't find anything.
Interesting thoughts on the degrees/minutes/seconds. For my working matrix of locations, I was using the decimals. I'll add the d/m/s to see if anything stands out. No discouragement taken. I'm just happy to be caught up and working on something that's still unsolved. |
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Post by Geodus on Feb 18, 2017 20:01:30 GMT -5
Of all the ideas being bounced around here, two seem very suggestive to me: - There are 26 locations. Could each location be some sort of reverse mapping for the vault code?
- There are four headings. While there are four chapters, there are also four missives.
I'm starting to lean towards the idea of the missives being related to this puzzle for several reasons. First, there are no other puzzles using the missive answer words. The only partial reference to them is a single day lock puzzle which uses the phonemes revealed after solving the missive night locks. Second, the vault codes for the missives are rather interesting: POLAR PROBE / FEUD / BRUTUM FULMEN / INSCRIBERS They don't seem to relate directly to the story, but they seem to relate to something. Third, the codex shows a question mark as one of the inputs to solving the sundial. What could the "?" mean? Everything from the chapters has an associated symbol, so it must be something outside the chapters. None of the missive symbols appear in the codex, so perhaps they are that outside thing. If the locations are an alphabet map, with each letter corresponding to a location in order, for the vault code we are looking for something that produces the following locations: - fondest.other.incomes (Bibliotheque de La Petite Patrie, Montreal)
- harder.locate.prime (Suzzallo and Allien Libraries, UW, WA)
- launch.taxi.hails (Belle Isle Library, Oklahoma City, OK)
- flock.post.free (Miller-Nichols Library, University of Missouri Kansas City)
- shots.nuns.fried (San Diego Central Library, San Diego, CA)
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Post by phraca on Feb 18, 2017 21:38:57 GMT -5
Good thoughts on the missives. Also note that the sundial appeared when fingers cross was unlocked, which itself appeared when the missives were unlocked. No other day or night locks needed to be opened to get to the sundial. I know this for sure because I was still on volume 2 when the missives came out and had not started V3 at all. I solved the 4 missives and then fingers crossed and got stuck on sundial. Didn't realize I was only one step away from the end all that time.  Also, don't forget about the fingers crossed lock and answer. For many of the day locks, the symbol is related to the answer, but I don't see a connection and I don't believe STAINED has factored into any other puzzles. As for the codex... The codex printed in Chapter 4 depicts the Sundial lock differently than the one on mpc.com/cnc. The online codex shows a dotted box around the issues, plus a ? as inputs to sundial. I would take this to mean the pictogram, plus the 4 titles. The C4 codex shows a "?" in each issue, plus an extra "?" in 3.4. The text in the codex says "In addition to the marked vault puzzles, there are any number of hidden puzzles, marked ? - just for the puzzling fun of it all." The pictogram fits the definition of "an unmarked puzzle" but I'm not sure the titles themselves qualify as "puzzles." What's interesting here is that there ARE additional unmarked puzzles: Chapter 1: ?
Chapter 2: ? (Maybe related to FPO dragonfly?)
Chapter 3: Laconic Egoists: "THEY WANT TO KILL YOU"
Chapter 4: Who's to blame: "DONT OPEN THE VAULT" I skimmed through the C1 and C2 threads and didn't see anything similar to the C3/C4 messages. |
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soulspath
Assistant
Vault 1 - Open, Vault 2 - Open, Vault 3 - Open
Posts: 54 
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Post by soulspath on Feb 23, 2017 22:30:40 GMT -5
I made it into the vault, but just from the hints, not by working with this puzzle. Still working with everyone else to find the "right way."
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Post by k80 on Mar 2, 2017 10:18:22 GMT -5
There's also one that's a school, with no mention made of a library. Maybe there's something special about that one? K8, Which one are you referring to as only a school? I found public libraries associated with all of them. At first, I thought lease.budding.victor was just a school, but google maps shows that "Bibliothèque Le Cormoran" is also at that same address and is a public library. Some more googling/facebooking reveals the library is on the 2nd floor of the school and is open to the public. Ah. I didn't look that far. Well done! |
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Post by phraca on Mar 2, 2017 21:22:16 GMT -5
Library recon plan: At this point, I am planning of stopping at the Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh during the first leg of our spring break trip at the end of March for a few hours (see a few posts above on my rationale for this). I have been working on a list of specific places to look: Fiction by author:
Stevenson
Alcott
Hawthorne
Gaskell
Lovecraft
Wilde
Bronte
Dante
Stoker
Shelley
Placeholder - Issue title authors
Placeholder - Curio Sticker authors
And fake author names:
McCabe
Steede
S. Patel I will be looking for anything inserted into any of the books, or a book that doesn't belong. Seems like a stretch, but could be fun. Any other suggestions? |
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Post by thebardess on Mar 3, 2017 19:04:20 GMT -5
Library recon plan: At this point, I am planning of stopping at the Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh during the first leg of our spring break trip at the end of March for a few hours (see a few posts above on my rationale for this). I have been working on a list of specific places to look: Fiction by author:
Stevenson
Alcott
Hawthorne
Gaskell
Lovecraft
Wilde
Bronte
Dante
Stoker
Shelley
And fake author names:
McCabe
Steede
S. Patel I will be looking for anything inserted into any of the books, or a book that doesn't belong. Seems like a stretch, but could be fun. Any other suggestions? You could check out the books referenced in the issue titles. |
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Post by phraca on Mar 4, 2017 0:12:58 GMT -5
Library recon plan: At this point, I am planning of stopping at the Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh during the first leg of our spring break trip at the end of March for a few hours (see a few posts above on my rationale for this). I have been working on a list of specific places to look: Fiction by author:
Stevenson
Alcott
Hawthorne
Gaskell
Lovecraft
Wilde
Bronte
Dante
Stoker
Shelley
And fake author names:
McCabe
Steede
S. Patel I will be looking for anything inserted into any of the books, or a book that doesn't belong. Seems like a stretch, but could be fun. Any other suggestions? You could check out the books referenced in the issue titles. Thank you! I knew I was forgetting something obvious. |
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Post by centaurofattn on Mar 6, 2017 11:56:48 GMT -5
You could check out the books referenced in the issue titles. Thank you! I knew I was forgetting something obvious. If you're treasure hunting, might as well include the novels mentioned in the sticker curios too! |
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Post by phraca on Mar 6, 2017 15:05:03 GMT -5
Good idea. I will go back and update the post with these suggestions. Also, interesting e-mail from the curator today (3/6/17). Can anyone who has done Tempus Fugit confirm if the library book is a direct reference to something in that experience?
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Post by kite on Mar 6, 2017 18:38:21 GMT -5
Good idea. I will go back and update the post with these suggestions. Also, interesting e-mail from the curator today (3/6/17). Can anyone who has done Tempus Fugit confirm if the library book is a direct reference to something in that experience? There's nothing about a library book in Tempus Fugit (but, then, there's nothing about forgetting where you parked your car, either). |
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