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Post by aliadruid1 on Mar 7, 2017 10:20:31 GMT -5
I hope I didn't miss this in the thread, but has anyone tried plotting all the points on the map and swing if the points make any type of image?
Or maybe it matches some sort of pilgrimage trail?
(Haven't looked into this myself yet, but I do want to follow this line of thinking.)
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Post by kite on Mar 7, 2017 16:56:11 GMT -5
I hope I didn't miss this in the thread, but has anyone tried plotting all the points on the map and swing if the points make any type of image? Or maybe it matches some sort of pilgrimage trail? (Haven't looked into this myself yet, but I do want to follow this line of thinking.) Yes, someone kindly plotted everything on a google map that can show all the locations or just some groups of them: www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1wkiI30jwKpuk242w9NvIYn27Gkk&ll=42.97787991139719%2C-142.17190589999996&z=2But it doesn't seem to add up to anything, and the fact that there are three instances of a pair of locations in the same city seems to argue against that interpretation. (Though the duplication in itself is interesting and may spark other thoughts. We just haven't gotten anywhere with it.)
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Post by jollywandering on Mar 15, 2017 10:14:44 GMT -5
Before I realized that the pictograph had anything to do with the sundial, I assumed the question mark referred to the fingers crossed solution that came from the four missives. There is one curio that has the quality described in that solution. Also, the area of that curio with that attribute surrounds four numbers. So, what is the likelihood that we are to use the four pieces of information from Harvest Time with the four numbers from the curio? I have no idea where to go from here, but I hadn't seen anyone mention using that curio, even though that was what immediately jumped out at me when I solved the fingers crossed.
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Post by stupidstupiddan on Mar 15, 2017 13:03:16 GMT -5
I'm guessing you're referring to the bingo card. Those numbers are one thing I was surprised never got worked into a puzzle anywhere. Good thoughts.
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Post by Prozac on Mar 15, 2017 18:42:38 GMT -5
I've been looking at the bingo card in connection to this. I didn't make the 'stained' connection, rather that the number 72 doesn't fit most patterns that one might expect in this puzzle (letters, dates, times, etc) but it does fit bingo. Unfortunately I have made precious little progress following this line of thought (although it must be said that I have had equally little time to dedicate to it of late). It occurs to me that having so many libraries in the list sends a clear message that the locations were chosen deliberately, but why so many? I believe the answer is either that each one somehow represents a word, letter or other component in a message; or that most of the locations are simply irrelevant camouflage for the specific ones required. I favour the former possibility. A key point that has been influencing my assumptions is the single location that is so far removed from the others. It makes the idea of an image or message being found by plotting the points seem implausible. Rather it has the feel of being included for a specific element that it possesses that is required for a message to work and that is not found closer to the other points. Identifying an element unique to this particular location (other than its geographical isolation from the others) might well unlock the secret of this puzzle. As far as the numbers go. I have noted that only the number 44 actually appears on the bingo card. All the numbers in the order given would appear in the columns B-O-B-N. The "bingo lingo" for each number does not immediately suggest relevance. Please forgive my pouring of disjointed thoughts into this thread. Perhaps they will provide some limited inspiration for anyone else tackling this.
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Post by phraca on Mar 15, 2017 20:02:29 GMT -5
I like the bingo card idea. As I mentioned upthread, the sundial lock appeared when the fingers crossed was solved and was the only lock needed to make it appear. I had not made the connection before to the fingers crossed key. It bothered me that the key answer wasn't used in any subsequent puzzles and this idea fits. Importantly, it also is one of the few curios to appear in the codex (which so far is true only of those needed to solve puzzles). Also note that curio is now in color in the codex, including that particular feature. I believe it was only black and white before, but not positive.
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Post by Todd on Mar 15, 2017 20:11:19 GMT -5
As I mentioned upthread, the sundial lock appeared when the fingers crossed was solved and was the only lock needed to make it appear. That's not the way I remember it. The Sundial just appeared about the same time all of the Chapter 4 and 5 locks went up, but didn't require solving any of them. In fact, the first post in the Sundial thread was made on November 8, and the first missive was sent in an email on November 17. I'm not saying they don't work together somehow. I'm just saying that solving the Crossed Fingers did not make the Sundial appear.
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Post by phraca on Mar 15, 2017 20:38:30 GMT -5
As I mentioned upthread, the sundial lock appeared when the fingers crossed was solved and was the only lock needed to make it appear. That's not the way I remember it. The Sundial just appeared about the same time all of the Chapter 4 and 5 locks went up, but didn't require solving any of them. In fact, the first post in the Sundial thread was made on November 8, and the first missive was sent in an email on November 17. I'm not saying they don't work together somehow. I'm just saying that solving the Crossed Fingers did not make the Sundial appear. Interesting. Maybe my memory is off, but I thought the sundial didn't appear until after I opened the fingers crossed lock. I had not even started Volume 3 yet, was just doing the missives.
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Post by Todd on Mar 15, 2017 20:52:25 GMT -5
Could be as simple as the Sundial appeared on or after November 8, as long as you have at least 5 locks unlocked.
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Post by jollywandering on Mar 15, 2017 21:35:23 GMT -5
It occurs to me that having so many libraries in the list sends a clear message that the locations were chosen deliberately, but why so many? I believe the answer is either that each one somehow represents a word, letter or other component in a message; or that most of the locations are simply irrelevant camouflage for the specific ones required. I favour the former possibility. There are
26 libraries so I'm thinking they might represent letters But I have no clue how.
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Post by Prozac on Mar 16, 2017 2:51:49 GMT -5
I certainly considered that but, if true, then the entire list of locations would only be giving us a keyed alphabet presumably then to be used to decipher a message. But what message? Not discounting the possibility at all, but I abandoned that particular line of thought and put the total of 26 down to coincidence (a dangerous thing to do with C&C, I know).
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Post by stupidstupiddan on Mar 16, 2017 8:42:44 GMT -5
Not to throw another option into the already growing sea; but, I was thinking what we could possibly do with the numbers from the bingo card My mind wandered between libraries and numbers...libraries and numbers...then it hit me. I'm not sure if there are any library sciences experts out there, but is there any way to combine all of the numbers we've been given into a dewy decimal number? Maybe that's the "map" we need to follow if and when we get a chance to visit the actual locations.
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Post by kite on Mar 16, 2017 17:13:01 GMT -5
Not to throw another option into the already growing sea; but, I was thinking what we could possibly do with the numbers from the bingo card My mind wandered between libraries and numbers...libraries and numbers...then it hit me. I'm not sure if there are any library sciences experts out there, but is there any way to combine all of the numbers we've been given into a dewy decimal number? Maybe that's the "map" we need to follow if and when we get a chance to visit the actual locations. Stringing the numbers together hasn't resulted in anything obviously usable (forward or backward). I've looked at Dewey numbers, ISSN/ISBN, OCLC numbers, phone numbers with no luck. For what it's worth, the locations are a pretty good mix of academic (which typically use Library of Congress classification) and public (typically Dewey) so no one type of categorization would be relevant to all of them. They do seem to be very specifically chosen (some very close to one another, one very far from all the rest), which makes me think the individual locations have significance. And the groupings of locations seem like they ought to carry meaning as well. My gut feeling is that it will not be necessary to visit them (between the logistics of setting up such a puzzle, and the unlikelihood of it remaining intact for any significant amount of time -- maybe if identical information were placed at each, there'd be a chance of recovering it, but then why such unevenly scattered locations?), but they do seem important for more than just cueing us into thinking about libraries. As for the discussion of when the sundial lock appeared, it was there for us as soon as we had access to the daytime locks. We didn't start working on C&C till December, and we saw it while we were working on 3.1. We didn't do the missives until much later.
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Post by Prozac on Mar 16, 2017 17:33:52 GMT -5
Regards the appearance of the sundial lock; I was still working through the Vol1&2 omnibus when the missives were released, so the four missives were the first night locks that I opened. Once I had all four, the crossed-fingers day lock appeared. Only when I had solved that did the sundial lock appear.
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Post by phraca on Mar 16, 2017 21:38:29 GMT -5
so no one type of categorization would be relevant to all of them. They do seem to be very specifically chosen (some very close to one another, one very far from all the rest), which makes me think the individual locations have significance. And the groupings of locations seem like they ought to carry meaning as well. My gut feeling is that it will not be necessary to visit them (between the logistics of setting up such a puzzle, and the unlikelihood of it remaining intact for any significant amount of time -- maybe if identical information were placed at each, there'd be a chance of recovering it, but then why such unevenly scattered locations?), but they do seem important for more than just cueing us into thinking about libraries. My favorite topic again. Some points to consider: If the point was just to convey the concept of libraries, why 26? Why not only one? And if 26 are required (for puzzle mechanics), why not scattered all over the world? None in Europe, Africa, South America, or Australia? And why mix in big libraries like Library of Congress with little ones like the one on PEI? Why have two down the street from each other? The best explanation I can think of for the pattern of libraries chosen is that those were libraries close to where friends/family of MPC employees live. The logistics of putting things in library books (or books in libraries) is not difficult if you have a network of people in those locations. If I sent 50 of my friends who live around the country a postcard to put in a book at their local library, and half confirmed to me they did it, I'd be done. They wouldn't need to be intact very long, especially if they don't ALL need to be visited to solve the puzzle. As to those solving a year or so in the future, they will have similar issues with the four missives they have missed. I would suggest both of those issue could be addressed in the codex (or by modifying the harvest time web site, for that matter). The longer we go without any other breaks in this puzzle, the more likely it seems to me we have to visit them. I still plan on stopping in Pittsburgh over spring break in 2 weeks. We'll see what happens!
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