Post by the0alchemist on Feb 11, 2016 23:38:46 GMT -5
Eiwaz looks like and M and means horse(movement), Iwaz looks like a means "yew' but often interpreted to mean defense. If we assume the latter, then we have defense mystery, ice, and water. Which makes sense with the them and story but with out seeing that really all I can tell ya.
Post by helenahandbasket on Feb 12, 2016 9:55:12 GMT -5
Thank you, Alchemist -- that's good stuff and it does fit into the story! It's great to have experienced eyes looking at this stuff!
I'm not skilled in reading runes or bind runes, so I took a more juvenile approach. I researched bind runes from Viking websites and saw which of those could be traced out in the amulet vs. finding just the letters/representations themselves. I ended up with a whole lot of bind rune options that are all appropriate to the story, they are all variations of:
protection from evil healing health strength protection for vehicle safe journey 1/2c softened nutella and 2c heavy cream, whip cream then fold in nutella
Oh wait, that last one was scribbled at the bottom of the post-it note for safe journey, but it sounds pretty tasty.
There were a couple of things that bothered me during my research, tho. The first was the piece of rune that is at the bottom of the amulet, the little 2-part tail at the end. The only rune that fits that pattern without being reversed in some way is
cweorth and cweorth can be fully traced out onto the amulet. If the interpretations I've read are reasonable, it's literally cleansing by fire -- but is more liberally interpreted as rebirth, transcendance, or restoration of balance, e.g., sickness into health or hate into love. That's appropriate to the story, of course, but the problem is that cweorth is not a Viking rune -- it's one of the 4 runes unique to the Northumbrian set and is out of place on this amulet?
The other thing that bothered me is that all the information I found about drawing runes and building bind runes showed that they are always drafted with
Post by the0alchemist on Feb 12, 2016 12:05:59 GMT -5
If you ask 10 psychics how to read an oracle you get 10 different answers. So my answer is by no means the rule. But when it comes to bind runes the only rule is becareful that you don't make other runes. I'm not sure what you mean hex vs oct but the most often reproduced bind runes each have 8 arms.
I did not see the picture before my last post but now that I see it, I'd say that tail looks like it makes the rune perth (mystery), and the other runes I see are Ansuz(God/Odin) and Raido(travel). To me it look like 4 Ansuz (the 4 brothers) follows by raido (the boat) and perth (what ever attacked them). If we think this is the charm made by the surving brother it could be interpited as asking Odin to intercede on behalf of the brothers.
<Mspaint of how I see the runes.
You can't have laguaz, ihwas, or isa, in that bind rune because they'd be subsumed completly by othe runes.
Post by the0alchemist on Feb 12, 2016 23:47:04 GMT -5
I actually drew it on paper a bunch of times, to really get a feel for it and to make sure I wasn't missing anything, so a quick ms paint was not too big a deal.
I've personally never had much stock with reversals, tarot or otherwise. But with the runes almost a third lack the graphic definition to actually be reversed, I've always wondered if reversals were just carried over when the new agers a generation ago moved from tarot to runes. I'm also not sure reversals in tarot are really that old a thing. Also runes stones as we use them today lack historical provenance. There's no real evidence that runes were ever used in divinatory fashion by the ancient norse. And I'm having a bit of trouble finding province for bind runes like the above.
There is also an argument that seeing as the symbols progress around a center-point then that central point is the down for all the symbols. The first Ansuz and the Raido are not upright but you wouldn't consider one of them reversed.
Post by helenahandbasket on Feb 13, 2016 12:04:31 GMT -5
Alchemist, I had something unrelated to ask you, I sent it as a private message but I have come to realize that the alert for private messages is pretty subtle -- check the upper left-hand corner under the messages tab...
For those interested here is a map of the locations. The red dots are the spots mentioned in the prolouge. The red shade is where the brother could have set out and be headed to. The purple is where the the attack could have happened.
The four ansuz runes stand for four deities that are supposed to protect the bearer of the talisman, specifically when untertaking a voyage (hence the raido rune). I am uncertain about the rune at the bottom of the figure - we have not found a credible historical source that seems to be certain about the meaning of the rune.
We do not believe that the rune represents the story of the Brothers and the Moonlit Sea, but is supposed to be a reproduction of the birchwood charm the second son in the story carried - a ward against the Century Beast.
As for this mailing in the context of what we have so far received (touches on the contents of the Interlude):
The person who sent us the article and talisman signed the attached note "SP", which are the initials of one of the people from the Westmund expedition, I believe the name was Steven Paulson. His name was the second-to-last name in the right column on the back of the photograph contained in that mailing, so we assume he is the second person from the right in the front row - one of the people not marked with what seem to be colourful causes of death.
Knowledge of the Beast seems to have been purged from records deliberately over the centuries - banned magazine pages, forgotten cave paintings, withdrawn scientific articles, lost fairy tales - and the people who made the discoveries have died under suspicious circumstances. But there are survivors, who are now looking for ways to protect themselves from the wrath of the Beast, like a talisman mentioned in an almost forgotten fairy tale.
I am curious how the connection to our recipient will be made...
As an aside, my brother is now, as he says, "95 percent certain" that I am behind the mailings and has threatened horrible retribution should this turn out to be the case. I call this a rousing success.
Post by the0alchemist on Feb 14, 2016 0:29:21 GMT -5
I'm not sure Ansuz can represent any random deity though, but specifically is the rune of Odin, most of the other big name gods have thier own runes. Ansuz from what I can tell means mouth or breath and seeing as Odin gave the breath of life to humans many interprit the rune is his.
Also one of the things I thought peculiar is that the talisman is made of Birch, which is not really a protective wood. It would make more sense to use a yew. The rune Berkanan is said to mean birch twig and it usually interpreted in terms of Growth, Fertility, Re-birth, New life. Which if they were setting off to find wives then several of those are very appropriate. I'm more inclined to believe the talisman is for success in the task instead of protections on the journey.
Also there is nothing in the tale that would suggest the brothers knew of the century beast.
And yet, the talisman saved the second brother from the Beast, yet did nothing for aiding him in his task of finding a wife; he lived out the rest of his days alone. Besides, I believe that tales of sea-monsters up to and including the many-armed Kraken have been circulated ever since man took to the seas, so it might not be so far-fetched that the most superstituios - or should I say traditionally minded - of the brothers would seek to protect himself from the dangers of such monstrosities.
As for the meaning of the ansuz rune, I am at bit of a loss there, the internet being the mess that it is. It seems, though, that the association of Odin with the a-rune stems from the icelandic rune poem, in which a later form of the ansuz rune is named "óss" ("god" in Old Norse), followed by a description of what seems to be Odin; other sources attribute a broader meaning to the rune. I maintain it might still be possible that ansuz, in the context of the story, may refer to any one of the Æsir.
of what would have been needed to survive the beast in the fairy tale or it might be what he thought he would need to survive the beast. Since he is still alive (at least, for the moment), he made another one for us. He doesn't say what kind of wood he carved it from, for all we know it's yew. Or birch. Or pine. Or bone. Given the deep curved surface it has, I definitely thought it was supposed to be bone.
Honestly, I confess to being slightly disappointed that the artifact turned out to be
made of resin, it's sort of a sore thumb kind of thing that wrecks the illusion for me. Since this particular amulet is a modern piece made by SP, not an ancient artifact, it could have just as easily been pewter (pewter is so soft even I can strike it with a single hit and I'm pretty wimpy) or maybe even printed on cloth to be kept close to our hearts as we move forward? Anything but plastic...
Post by the0alchemist on Feb 14, 2016 17:51:06 GMT -5
We don't actually know if the charm had any affect on the second brother not dying. Or if it did work why. The only thing we know is that he made a charm of birch and was wearing it. For all we know he was just quick to make a break to safety and by the time his brothers were all ate he was on dry land. The fact that it's birch and called a charm, discourages me from thinking it was protective in nature. Typically things protective in nature are called amulet or talisman. And trees play such big role in Norse mythology that it's unlikely that the wood was picked randomly. If you truly believe that there was a magical sea beast out there waiting to devour you why would you risk using birch over something like Yew. And if it was for protection why not have any of the definitively protective runes.
Like Helen says if the rune was carved by SP for us and and not as a replica of the brothers, that requires a different interpretation. Though that view point puts me at more of a loss as to why those runes were chosen.
I've only seen pictures of the thing that you all received and when I first saw it I thought of bone before wood. I can understand why it's resin from a business and prop making perspective. It's much easier and more cost effective to produce en mass charms made of resin, than pewter. Just the labor to make several of these of wood is too much. As for not just drawing it on cloth I would imagine that lacks the sort of feel they're going for.
I will defer to your expertise here, Alchemist - I myself have no prior knowledge of runic lore. Maybe I am too hung up on narrative convention here; it would, after all fit nicely if the item enclosed with the translation of the fairytale would be the same, or a replica, of the item mentioned therein.
I find it curious however if the survival of the second brother would not be connected to his carving the charm, given that it is mentioned in the same sentence that establishes him as the sole survivor of the attack; this seems to be the interpretation of the artist who penned the accompanying illustration as well.
Speaking of the image, has anyone taken a magnifying glass to the pictures? I should really make photographs or scans of these documents.
Post by the0alchemist on Feb 15, 2016 16:11:04 GMT -5
They also mention that the youngest brother broke free from chains (story says "iron rope") and ate a talking wolf, which plays no importance there after. If we are to believe the article many fairy tale elements were added after the fact in the oral retelling of the story. I'm not saying that the talisman was or was not present or talisman did or did not help, just that we don't know but if we're talking about a protective item then the runes on the talisman received make no sense from the information I have available.
And this is definitely not based on story thus far but if we're dealing with a lovecraftian creature would runes have an effect on them.
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