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Post by k80 on Nov 28, 2016 10:47:12 GMT -5
Volumes I & II did have a great story. It also encouraged me to actually read the entire newspaper where admittedly I didn't read all of Volume III cover to cover (though I may over winter break). I disliked reading the "themed" issues in V3. Paranoia? Conspiracies? Eh. V1 and V2 actually had stories.
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Post by centaurofattn on Nov 28, 2016 11:57:41 GMT -5
Volumes I & II did have a great story. It also encouraged me to actually read the entire newspaper where admittedly I didn't read all of Volume III cover to cover (though I may over winter break). I disliked reading the "themed" issues in V3. Paranoia? Conspiracies? Eh. V1 and V2 actually had stories. Though they DID sort of keep the story alive in the vault, oddly enough.
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Post by MrKairo on Nov 28, 2016 13:39:14 GMT -5
I'd like to clarify my feelings on the story of Volume 3: I have no problem with the "plot" of this volume thusfar (and it is still possible that issue 4 will blow my mind into a million pieces, fingers crossed). Bad guy robs the Vault, gets cursed by a skull, race to find the cure... That's all good stuff, on par plot-wise with previous volumes. My problem is not with the subject matter, but with the delivery method and the amount of story content. For two years, the idea was that the C&C newspaper was a covert means for Andrew McCabe and his allies to communicate with one another while also calling attention to the war between the OSS and the SZ for antiquities. To that end, most of the articles were either about the strange goings on of the SZ/OSS or about the strange wonders of the world. The puzzles led to communiques from Andrew. So you got a little bit of story from everything. This year, for one thing, Andrew didn't even show up until the very end of the puzzles for issue 2. That's like having a season of 24 and Jack Bauer doesn't show up until hour 10. While some of the articles with live people interviewing dead people or the deaths of interesting people are fun to read, they don't move the plot. Additionally, articles like the ones about Twitter or Instagram feel deeply anachronistic when surrounded by ads from the 1900's. And they really, REALLY don't move the plot. So it isn't that I think that the story is bad this year, just that there isn't enough of it and there is too much other stuff going on. I feel like I am going to a concert for a band I like but there is a marching band passing through at the same time.
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Post by k80 on Nov 28, 2016 14:00:23 GMT -5
: My problem is not with the subject matter, but with the delivery method and the amount of story content. For two years, the idea was that the C&C newspaper was a covert means for Andrew McCabe and his allies to communicate with one another while also calling attention to the war between the OSS and the SZ for antiquities. To that end, most of the articles were either about the strange goings on of the SZ/OSS or about the strange wonders of the world. The puzzles led to communiques from Andrew. So you got a little bit of story from everything. +1
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Post by thegenii on Nov 28, 2016 15:59:31 GMT -5
Same brown envelope for Issue 1 of volume 3 here.
I don't wish this to sound sexist (everyone's toes are very delicate these days), but--and with no evidence to support this other than my experience as a male writer who has read the work of many male and female writers of various degrees of ability--the phrases "'my poppets,' 'my dear sweet peas' and 'my pretty petals,' as well as trying to mix modern slang (like 'ugh')into past polite society" all sound like the work of an inexperienced female writer. Regardless of the sex, one can definitely state that it's poor writing.
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Post by lucasscooter on Nov 28, 2016 16:17:10 GMT -5
Same brown envelope for Issue 1 of volume 3 here. I don't wish this to sound sexist (everyone's toes are very delicate these days), but--and with no evidence to support this other than my experience as a male writer who has read the work of many male and female writers of various degrees of ability--the phrases "'my poppets,' 'my dear sweet peas' and 'my pretty petals,' as well as trying to mix modern slang (like 'ugh')into past polite society" all sound like the work of an inexperienced female writer. Regardless of the sex, one can definitely state that it's poor writing. Unless it's intentionally supposed to seem like poor writing. Then, if you think about it, it would be great writing. Or great pretending to write poorly, rather. Madam Morpheme is an inexperienced female writer, after all.
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Post by hollyhemlock on Nov 29, 2016 23:59:58 GMT -5
Same brown envelope for Issue 1 of volume 3 here. I don't wish this to sound sexist (everyone's toes are very delicate these days), but--and with no evidence to support this other than my experience as a male writer who has read the work of many male and female writers of various degrees of ability--the phrases "'my poppets,' 'my dear sweet peas' and 'my pretty petals,' as well as trying to mix modern slang (like 'ugh')into past polite society" all sound like the work of an inexperienced female writer. Regardless of the sex, one can definitely state that it's poor writing. Even if you didn't want to sound sexist, that definitely IS sexist (and identifying that doesn't have to do with being delicate; just cognizant)... As you also say, " Regardless of the sex, one can definitely state that it's poor writing," and I would agree with that. And maybe it's sexist of ME, but I actually felt it was a male writer... In my mind, The Curator is Timothy Sullivan, and he wrote like this when he was "possessed" (during the Filigree of Shadow emails). So HE could certainly be capable of this style... But anyway, what does it matter who wrote it, or if it was a man or a woman? I just hope it's a temporary theme and it goes away.
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Post by pinktiger on Nov 30, 2016 7:44:51 GMT -5
I didn't experience the previous volumes yet. So I can't compare. Nontheless some opinions and thoughts by what I experienced myself so far and read in the answers of others. 1)I agree with the fact that story should be king otherwise the whole concept is a void one and we can just get seperate puzzles and in that respect I like this volume so far. Is it my completly style...not really but it does fit the theme. It isn't the first time I read somthing that I found to be genius but isn't completly my style in the way it was written. 2)the use of modern parts in a paper that is set in a different time. This a bit a knife that cuts both ways. I do like that they import more modern parts in there sometimes for the sake of puzzles but also in the form of articles that fit the theme of that issue. but on the other side it does sometimes doesn't fit in and feels natural. If they would give storywise a good reason why they have access to knowledge of all ages but print in the form of a certain age that would feel a lot more acceptable then. They already have some elements and I guess they are clever enough to cook something up in that direction.
3)on the timing of the vaults. I find it a very sound suggestion to instead of getting the vaults in advance they should come only after a few weeks that the issuess are send out. Solving a bit the aspect that not everyone can start at the same time and so miss the fun part of discussing things here on the forum too. Also it puts the break on the rushing. Personally, I tried to rush for a while to try and catch up so I would be able to start on issue 4 when it came out. I noticed that I got more frustration because of that and less fun. So stopped and will catch up when I have done all else in my own time.
4) I did read somewhere (while looking for a clue when I was stuck) that previously not everyone got the same curios.and that they need to work together to solve it. I do like that idea a lot. But seeing the growing community of C&C maybe in a different way. Like for example 1 lock that opens for the whole community when they worked out the group answer and in there the you need to enter a subcode that only links to your personal curio. that way late arrivals still have something to work out with their own curios. but you have something that let people who want to work together have their fun too.
5) I do like all the extra's and hope they stay odd tales and the stories behind things. I also share the fun in delving into something and learning, discovering new things thanks to it. Not only in C&C I also like to see it in the forum.
6)Referring to that last point I do find it a pity that it contains sometimes so much more but not all is discussed here. (although I did just started a thread for v3.2, so maybe stating this a bit too fast) when I first came to the forum for V3.1 I did find a lot more train of thoughts, opinions and little fact that people found out(from adds and such).
7)lastly the level of the puzzles. I am actually fine with them. some are easy enough and other I couldn't solve if I wouldn't got some (or a lot of) help. since their are more C&C subscribers they have to make more a bit for all puzzles. since (if I understood it correctly) there are more puzzles then before there should be enough for those who are mainly focussing on the hardest ones. I did just started on V3.3 now and the one thing I did disliked was the sheme telling how the puzzles and the vault are linked.
that is about it (for now, maybe after 3 and 4, more comments)
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Post by jellybean313 on Dec 1, 2016 20:06:47 GMT -5
I started with volume 3 so I can't compare to "the good old days". I was interested in joining earlier but did not want to start in the middle of a story and I couldn't afford to purchase the catch up. I was happy that this was a new start. As a newbie, I liked that the puzzles were marked because I didn't know what I was getting into. I like that I was able to easily access the website, the vault and this thread all from my phone. I enjoyed finding the multiple layers of puzzles and the difficulty level of each but I would not have made it through without this forum. You have all helped me so much! I have enjoyed this year of curios and conundrums and I am looking forward to the next volume!
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Post by verdantfruu on Dec 5, 2016 11:33:17 GMT -5
MrKairo, in this post-truth age, I feel the need to fact check your statements nevertheless In fact, only one article in each issue of vols 1 and 2 conveyed the OSS/SZ story (that being the New York Socialite reprints, most often). It's quite inaccurate to claim that "most" did, when in fact the exact opposite is true. In volume 3, TWO articles in each issue convey the story (Letters to the Editor and Parapathology). So there is more story in volume 3, yet you're complaining of less! You also said: In fact, just as in volume 3, some puzzles led to communiques. I've seen k8's criticisms that some puzzles in volume 3 just result in seemingly nonsensical words, when that was also the case with the first two volumes. Look at the vol 1/2 horoscope answers, the 4-picture puzzles, the Duchess puzzle ... sometimes they were thematic and matched the story, and other times (mostly noticeably with the 4-picture puzzles), they did not. As in volume 3, some puzzle answers are single words, while other are longer clues and phrases. Further, you claim: Not true. Andrew is mentioned on page 2 of the first issue, when the Editor is introduced. The SZ is mentioned right away as well. Keep in mind that the volume 1 prologue also makes no mention of Andrew, and is just the story of a secret society. That's it. That character is revealed slowly, across a 9-issue arc. Not every story in the first two volumes advanced the plot. In fact, only ONE article did, with a supplementary "secret" plot revealed in select curios and puzzle answers. I just had to jump in an "um, actually" you because opinion is one thing, but what you were saying wasn't factual.
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Post by thebardess on Dec 6, 2016 10:17:39 GMT -5
I'll be honest- I felt both irritated and disappointed when I found out that some of the Chapter 4 locks had been opened ahead of the issue even being shipped. There's something that doesn't sit right with me about opening locks by just throwing out guesses (even educated ones) until you find one that works, instead of actually puzzling out the solution. It just feels like cheating to me (inasmuch as one can cheat at something like this). It certainly doesn't seem to be in keeping with the spirit of C&C and it feels like it goes against what we're always telling newcomers about building a community, and this being more about the journey than the destination. I remember waiting eagerly for my issue to arrive so I could (figuratively) sit down with everybody and start puzzling out answers for the locks. Finding out that some of those locks had already been opened really took the wind out of my sails. I just kind of felt like "Well geez, why even bother now?" It doesn't build much of a sense of community when some people are sitting down to work through to the solution only to have others go "Oh, well, we already guessed the answer without even looking at the puzzle, but we can discuss it anyway." And don't tell me it's the MPC's fault for putting the locks up early or "dumbing down" the puzzles so that the answers can be guessed- no one made you start guessing Vault codes (oh, and what with all the remarks about "dumbing down," well, thanks for making those of us who found the puzzles challenging/didn't guess the answers beforehand/enjoy some of the new "dumbed down" articles and features feel stupid).
That being said, I do feel that the plot was more cohesive and fleshed out in Volumes 1 & 2. MPC, if you're listening, I feel like we need the storytelling of the first two volumes, but the extra, blinged out puzzles of the third.
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Post by verdantfruu on Dec 7, 2016 10:57:01 GMT -5
Preferring the Vol 1/2 story to the Vol 3 story is totally legitimate (even though we haven't yet completed the Vol 3 story). I just get my back up when people suggest there's MORE story in 1/2, or somehow NO story in vol 3... or that there weren't any random or disconnected single-word puzzle answers in 1/2. (There were plenty.)
I prefer the puzzles being marked, because I didn't enjoy not knowing what was a puzzle and what wasn't in 1/2. It was too wide-open. Anything could have been a puzzle, and a lot of people saw puzzles where there weren't any, which struck me as a big waste of time. I much preferred the Victorian medium serial to the Madame Morpheme story. The puzzles in this volume were more puzzly... a lot of what we called "puzzles" in 1/2 were actually just straight-up decryption tasks, not puzzling. The method was the same: 1. identify something as a secret code 2. find the alphabet for that code 3. decode it.
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Eleduar
Assistant
Sitter of the original sitting room. Vault 3 opener. Lover of mystery, otherworldy, supernatural.
Posts: 68
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Post by Eleduar on Dec 8, 2016 22:58:24 GMT -5
Volumes I & II did have a great story. It also encouraged me to actually read the entire newspaper where admittedly I didn't read all of Volume III cover to cover (though I may over winter break). I disliked reading the "themed" issues in V3. Paranoia? Conspiracies? Eh. V1 and V2 actually had stories. I actually really enjoyed 3.2. I may have been wearing aluminum foil before the issue arrived. Perhaps this is their way of reaching out to all denizens of this world, whether or not they're living in fallout shelters.
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Eleduar
Assistant
Sitter of the original sitting room. Vault 3 opener. Lover of mystery, otherworldy, supernatural.
Posts: 68
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Post by Eleduar on Dec 8, 2016 23:01:21 GMT -5
I'd like to clarify my feelings on the story of Volume 3: I have no problem with the "plot" of this volume thusfar (and it is still possible that issue 4 will blow my mind into a million pieces, fingers crossed). Bad guy robs the Vault, gets cursed by a skull, race to find the cure... That's all good stuff, on par plot-wise with previous volumes. My problem is not with the subject matter, but with the delivery method and the amount of story content. For two years, the idea was that the C&C newspaper was a covert means for Andrew McCabe and his allies to communicate with one another while also calling attention to the war between the OSS and the SZ for antiquities. To that end, most of the articles were either about the strange goings on of the SZ/OSS or about the strange wonders of the world. The puzzles led to communiques from Andrew. So you got a little bit of story from everything. This year, for one thing, Andrew didn't even show up until the very end of the puzzles for issue 2. That's like having a season of 24 and Jack Bauer doesn't show up until hour 10. While some of the articles with live people interviewing dead people or the deaths of interesting people are fun to read, they don't move the plot. Additionally, articles like the ones about Twitter or Instagram feel deeply anachronistic when surrounded by ads from the 1900's. And they really, REALLY don't move the plot. So it isn't that I think that the story is bad this year, just that there isn't enough of it and there is too much other stuff going on. I feel like I am going to a concert for a band I like but there is a marching band passing through at the same time. Though I have yet to discover the delights of Volumes 1 and 2, I agree that the back and forth between the vintage ads and being directed to online things was a bit jarring.
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Eleduar
Assistant
Sitter of the original sitting room. Vault 3 opener. Lover of mystery, otherworldy, supernatural.
Posts: 68
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Post by Eleduar on Dec 8, 2016 23:07:37 GMT -5
MrKairo, in this post-truth age, I feel the need to fact check your statements nevertheless In fact, only one article in each issue of vols 1 and 2 conveyed the OSS/SZ story (that being the New York Socialite reprints, most often). It's quite inaccurate to claim that "most" did, when in fact the exact opposite is true. In volume 3, TWO articles in each issue convey the story (Letters to the Editor and Parapathology). So there is more story in volume 3, yet you're complaining of less! You also said: In fact, just as in volume 3, some puzzles led to communiques. I've seen k8's criticisms that some puzzles in volume 3 just result in seemingly nonsensical words, when that was also the case with the first two volumes. Look at the vol 1/2 horoscope answers, the 4-picture puzzles, the Duchess puzzle ... sometimes they were thematic and matched the story, and other times (mostly noticeably with the 4-picture puzzles), they did not. As in volume 3, some puzzle answers are single words, while other are longer clues and phrases. Further, you claim: Not true. Andrew is mentioned on page 2 of the first issue, when the Editor is introduced. The SZ is mentioned right away as well. Keep in mind that the volume 1 prologue also makes no mention of Andrew, and is just the story of a secret society. That's it. That character is revealed slowly, across a 9-issue arc. Not every story in the first two volumes advanced the plot. In fact, only ONE article did, with a supplementary "secret" plot revealed in select curios and puzzle answers. I just had to jump in an "um, actually" you because opinion is one thing, but what you were saying wasn't factual. I like this person.
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