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Post by MrKairo on Nov 21, 2016 14:53:48 GMT -5
So, I don't know if those devious folks from the MPC ever read these boards, but I am guessing that they are ALWAYS WATCHING. Anyway, I have seen a number of posts where people are lamenting the quality of this Volume compared to the previous two. So I thought that, instead of railing against the heavens or wryly wondering whatever happened to the good old days, we could use this thread to give a little feedback to the MPC. Maybe they'll even read it.
So feel free to post any thoughts you have on improvements that could be made to C&C for next year, things you miss from previous years, observations about the puzzles or the Vault, etc etc
Here is my two cents-
While I love the quantity of puzzles this year (10-15 per issue as opposed to 5-8) and I personally have been happy with the quality and difficulty (I was so impressed by the multiple levels of the Patently Ridiculous puzzle and the difficulty on some of these were off the charts (Think issue 2 Word Search). However, by marking the puzzles, we lost the added fun of having to search the paper for them. Additionally, by repeating puzzle types and linking the answers (looking at you Short n Sweet), puzzles that started off being tricky in issue 1 become easy by issue 4 (since many of us have solved it before we ever got the issue).
For future Volumes, I would recommend: 1) Give us more instructions and messages. Finding 1-3 word answers is swell and all, but I miss the crossword communiques and entire letters encoded with Vignere. Story is king. It's cool to find a code word, but it is way better to discover what is going on in the war between the OSS and SZ. 2) Make the Vault harder to find. It shouldn't be something I can access by clicking in two different place on the homepage. In fact, I think that there should be separate vaults and that you shouldn't even be able to find the Issue 2 vault without a clue found in the issue 1 vault and so on. 3) Don't make the Vault live until a couple weeks after the issue is shipped. That will prevent us being able to make wild guesses as well as cutting some of the advantage that folks with easy shipping locations get. Also, being able to see the letter counts or spacing was kind of a crutch. 4) Stick to the format. While I am sure that Madam Morpheme is fun to write, I found the serialized story of the reporter trying to track down the SZ so very much better. What has happened to the intrepid reporters of C&C (other than the one that was killed)?
What do you guys suggest?
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Post by k80 on Nov 21, 2016 15:26:53 GMT -5
THAT. I'll be sending the MPC a letter pointing them here, I think. We don't see any evidence that anyone from the MPC is registered here, but they'd be stupid not to be, unless they don't care what we think.
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Post by neutronstar on Nov 22, 2016 22:24:18 GMT -5
Okay, this is my first volume of C&C, so I have nothing to compare it to, but just a few mailings ago, a letter from the Curator had a picture of all four issues of this volume in their unique outer envelopes.
My first issue, A New Era of Thought, came in a plain brown envelope. My issue 2 and 3 came in very unique outer envelopes. Just wondering if any of you had a similar experience.
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Post by craigrj on Nov 23, 2016 4:10:54 GMT -5
Same for me - I started with 3.2 and ordered and received 3.1 recently, and yeah it was in the plain brown mailer too
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Post by Todd on Nov 23, 2016 6:23:21 GMT -5
While two of those images are for chapters 2 and 3, it doesn't necessarily follow the other two are for 1 and 4. For all we know, they could be inner and outer envelope for chapter 4.
But back on topic, there are many elements of Volumes 1 and 2 that I miss, and there are also many good elements in volume 3. I'll post an opinion once I've digested the final issue of this volume.
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Eleduar
Assistant
Sitter of the original sitting room. Vault 3 opener. Lover of mystery, otherworldy, supernatural.
Posts: 68
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Post by Eleduar on Nov 24, 2016 23:11:44 GMT -5
Excellent idea making this thread, MrKairo! At the time I write this, many have gotten through much of 3.1 to 3.3 and issue 3.4 has yet to arrive.
Here are my opinions:
Quality: The overall quality of the writing, curios, and puzzles is astounding. Though I was a little disappointed in getting only paper items in 3.1, the curios in 3.2 and 3.3 more than make up for it.
Fun: I have found numerous times that different life experiences have my friends being better or worse at different puzzles, depending on what interests they have in life (literary, movies, hobbies, even sign-language...). This has created a great sense of community and working together, which can also be seen on these forums. Half the fun is in discovering things together! I also very VERY much enjoy the more interactive puzzles that require curios or putting things together, rearranging things, or even acting out things in your own home......
Plot: Though I have yet to see the conclusion from issue 4, I am very happy so far with the darker elements of the plot. Murder, mayhem, and yes, poison, are always enticing story topics.
Reward: Though the enrichment and time together enjoyed is a wonderful reward in itself, the mention of a "reward" in the daytime locks suggests something more tangible. It would be unfortunate if this were only available to those hardcore puzzlers whom may have more time on their hands. Myself and my buddies are quite busy most of the time, and I guess you could say we are "casual players". What I think would really make the entire package of Volume 3 shine is some sort of epilogue or final note or story that could be unlocked as a "reward" for completing all the puzzling in the issues. This would provide a happy pat on the back and a comforting sense of closure to everyone far and wide who puzzles away diligently and enjoys the C&C.
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Eleduar
Assistant
Sitter of the original sitting room. Vault 3 opener. Lover of mystery, otherworldy, supernatural.
Posts: 68
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Post by Eleduar on Nov 24, 2016 23:13:54 GMT -5
Okay, this is my first volume of C&C, so I have nothing to compare it to, but just a few mailings ago, a letter from the Curator had a picture of all four issues of this volume in their unique outer envelopes.
My first issue, A New Era of Thought, came in a plain brown envelope. My issue 2 and 3 came in very unique outer envelopes. Just wondering if any of you had a similar experience.
Yes, I had the exact same experience. I am guessing that after the initial release of 3.1, when the MPC upgraded the envelopes, they did so retroactively for new members who were "late to the party". Though it would have been nice to get a fancy envelope for 3.1, I am happy that the contents are all the same.
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Eleduar
Assistant
Sitter of the original sitting room. Vault 3 opener. Lover of mystery, otherworldy, supernatural.
Posts: 68
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Post by Eleduar on Nov 24, 2016 23:18:03 GMT -5
So, I don't know if those devious folks from the MPC ever read these boards, but I am guessing that they are ALWAYS WATCHING. Anyway, I have seen a number of posts where people are lamenting the quality of this Volume compared to the previous two. So I thought that, instead of railing against the heavens or wryly wondering whatever happened to the good old days, we could use this thread to give a little feedback to the MPC. Maybe they'll even read it. So feel free to post any thoughts you have on improvements that could be made to C&C for next year, things you miss from previous years, observations about the puzzles or the Vault, etc etc Here is my two cents- While I love the quantity of puzzles this year (10-15 per issue as opposed to 5-8) and I personally have been happy with the quality and difficulty (I was so impressed by the multiple levels of the Patently Ridiculous puzzle and the difficulty on some of these were off the charts (Think issue 2 Word Search). However, by marking the puzzles, we lost the added fun of having to search the paper for them. Additionally, by repeating puzzle types and linking the answers (looking at you Short n Sweet), puzzles that started off being tricky in issue 1 become easy by issue 4 (since many of us have solved it before we ever got the issue). For future Volumes, I would recommend: 1) Give us more instructions and messages. Finding 1-3 word answers is swell and all, but I miss the crossword communiques and entire letters encoded with Vignere. Story is king. It's cool to find a code word, but it is way better to discover what is going on in the war between the OSS and SZ. 2) Make the Vault harder to find. It shouldn't be something I can access by clicking in two different place on the homepage. In fact, I think that there should be separate vaults and that you shouldn't even be able to find the Issue 2 vault without a clue found in the issue 1 vault and so on. 3) Don't make the Vault live until a couple weeks after the issue is shipped. That will prevent us being able to make wild guesses as well as cutting some of the advantage that folks with easy shipping locations get. Also, being able to see the letter counts or spacing was kind of a crutch. 4) Stick to the format. While I am sure that Madam Morpheme is fun to write, I found the serialized story of the reporter trying to track down the SZ so very much better. What has happened to the intrepid reporters of C&C (other than the one that was killed)? What do you guys suggest? I agree completely with points 2 an 3. For point 1, more story would be awesome, but only as something uncovered after much effort on my part. I want to unearth things like an archaeologist....slowly and gently. A good juicy epilogue would be a fantastic reward after issue 4.
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Post by hollyhemlock on Nov 26, 2016 13:39:01 GMT -5
Feedback: I have been desperately scouring the forum for whoever posted this issue first, but I too am really tired of the precocious alliteration ("After ages of apprehension anticipating the abrupt amplification of aggression around this animated anniversary each annum...")... Someone else posted (and again I can't find it but really hope they chime in), that volume three descended ( or hopefully just embraced for a temporary theme, although the emails seem stuck in it...) into something attempting to be "adorably insane?" I can't explain it as well as the person who first noted it... hope I find that post... but I hope they abandon the baby talk... :\ EDIT: FOUND IT!!! curiosandconundrums.freeforums.net/thread/186/volume-3-issue-1My emphasis added: Regarding Volume Three, I just put down Issue One, and am sad to say I was disappointed in its contents, mainly the writing and subject matter. I found several references to a "new regime" at C&C, and unfortunately it only serves to make me fondly remember the old one. I find the writing in the new volume much less mysterious and engaging than in past volumes, and almost as if the entire publication has been "dumbed down." There is far too much sing-songish onomatopoeia, a plethora of silly addresses like "my poppets," "my dear sweet peas" and "my pretty petals," as well as trying to mix modern slang (like "ugh")into past polite society. There are too many truly outlandish articles that take the level of entertainment from a suspension of disbelief to one of more than obvious and almost juvenile fiction-- inserting fictional characters like Lestat de Lioncourt into dinner parties, showcasing a discussion with Death (by G. Reaper--really?) and interviewing Joan of Arc as if she is alive and well in the modern day. I love MPC, and am proud to be a member--and I really wanted to embrace this new regime of writers, but sadly all it's done so far is make me long for the far more engaging intelligentsia of the former staff. Regards, Lia ^^^ perfectly describes the biggest reason why I am considering unsubbing. I really can't handle this... And RE: the envelopes-- I will also add myself to all the people whose first envelope was brown. As I was "late to the party," I assumed they ran out of those hair printed envelopes... but apparently that is not the case as people who got theirs at the beginning of the year also got a brown envelope?
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Post by lucasscooter on Nov 26, 2016 15:07:13 GMT -5
Okay, this is my first volume of C&C, so I have nothing to compare it to, but just a few mailings ago, a letter from the Curator had a picture of all four issues of this volume in their unique outer envelopes.
My first issue, A New Era of Thought, came in a plain brown envelope. My issue 2 and 3 came in very unique outer envelopes. Just wondering if any of you had a similar experience.
Yes, I had the exact same experience. I am guessing that after the initial release of 3.1, when the MPC upgraded the envelopes, they did so retroactively for new members who were "late to the party". Though it would have been nice to get a fancy envelope for 3.1, I am happy that the contents are all the same. Nope. Even though Volume 3 is my first C&C adventure, I managed to snag it right at the very beginning. We all received the same brown cardboard envelope.
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Post by lucasscooter on Nov 26, 2016 16:08:21 GMT -5
Here are my thoughts: As previously stated, I am a first time subscriber. However, I did look through this forum on the previous volumes because I was curious and I wanted to know the story that had been told so far. Basically, I only know the third volume firsthand, but I do have some knowledge on the previous ones. I think something everyone is "forgetting" is that this volume was supposed to be a gateway. The MPC is trying (or tried, I guess) to make a volume that newbies to C&C can pick up and still enjoy. Yes, there was a staff change and yes, the format changed some, but we do have to consider the fact that they were trying to open an amazing world of puzzles to a wider crowd. This could also explain the "dumbing down" of the writing (though I personally think that something can still be complex and enigmatic even if explained without a plethora of multifarious, esoteric verbiage). But I digress. Knowing only so much about the previous volumes makes my opinion on the current issue unable to be compared. I actually didn't mind Madam Morpheme. Now before you all get out your pitchforks and burn me at the stake, let me explain. Yes, the "my poppets", "my dears", and other saccharine phrases were "annoying", but I thought it fit her character nicely. She reminds me of Professor Trelawney, for those who have read the Harry Potter books. For those who haven't (or simply don't remember), she's an eccentric fortuneteller whose predictions for the future aren't all spot on. She loves incense and constantly talks about the Inner Eye and how important it is, speaking in language that I would describe as "misty". She's annoying, but the kind of annoying that makes you smile and shake your head. Speaking of which, that's what I feel has mostly changed with this volume. It's less serious than the previous ones (from what I've seen). I like it, as I sit down to do puzzles for fun and I love when something makes me smile (like the gossip magazine page or the 3.2 Yesterday's Guide to Today). I can also appreciate something more serious. So, in short, I'm indifferent on the change. But enough of my discourse. Here are my thoughts on the volume itself. No more trying to compare it to the past and attempting to seem a defense lawyer. As stated, I think this volume hit on the right amount of serious and tongue-in-cheek wit. But I'm a pretty happy-go-lucky guy when it comes to serious vs. funny. I don't know about the previous volumes, but this one had plenty of references to things both new and old. Since my age is a bit of an anomaly, I appreciated this. I loved the puzzles. Some I found easy, others were mind-boggling. Google was definitely my bestest friend, which, considering I have no friends who are interested in helping me solve the puzzles, was nice. This forum also made the experience 23.46 times better. I could ask for help when I got stuck on a puzzle I just wasn't seeing (like the eye daytime lock, which I still have not completed yet ). Now is probably a good time to mention that, due to mail forwarding issues, I received the first two issues in late August, with the third coming along shortly in September. So, I am currently done with 3.1, almost done with 3.2, I've glanced at 3.3, and 3.4 hasn't arrived yet (if anyone has even received it yet?). My entire review is based on this knowledge. Which just puts another nail into the coffin of "I should never be a reviewer". I like MrKairo's suggestion of making the Vault not as easy to find. However, they'd have to find a balance that didn't alienate those who weren't as good at puzzles, or those who were. The Vault could definitely use a few hardware upgrades. I actually prefer the labeling of the puzzles, to a certain degree. I would suggest that the labeling isn't always as obvious as a large symbol, though. From what I've seen and heard through the grapevine, the story is disappointing in this Volume. Or, at least, not "up to par" with the previous volumes. As someone who loves stories and puzzles, I'm a bit saddened by this. Lastly, the curios. Without knowing what the last Volumes' were like, I appreciated them, but some more than others. I, while not a minimalist, like things to serve a purpose. If that purpose is adorning the only square inch of space on my bookshelf or adding a splash of color to the black-and-whiteness of my paper-strewn desk, so be it. Other than the stickers and the poster (I never really have anything I can stick stickers to and the "only" posters I have hanging in my room are "Fish Species of the Southwestern U.S.", "Bat Species of Arizona", the largest possible map of the world I could find [laminated so I can draw all over it], and Wind Waker Link sailing off to adventure with the Red Lion; Annie Taylor didn't really fit in and I would like to be able to see some wall), I felt most of the curios met this. Except Mafia, in a way. It's my favorite curio (so much so that I have a list of about 100 other More Equal Citizens I came up with), but I don't have enough friends to be able to play it. That would definitely be one downside to having the majority of your friends be from other countries. Anyway, this review has gone on long enough. Sorry if I got anything wrong (please correct me!) or stepped on anybody's toes. I just wanted to add my cent's worth to MrKairo's and everyone else's. I think we might have enough to buy a loaf of bread in 1960!
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Post by helenahandbasket on Nov 26, 2016 19:12:44 GMT -5
[snip] 3) Don't make the Vault live until a couple weeks after the issue is shipped. That will prevent us being able to make wild guesses as well as cutting some of the advantage that folks with easy shipping locations get. Also, being able to see the letter counts or spacing was kind of a crutch. [snip] What do you guys suggest? Personally, I wish MPC would ditch anything related to 'first' to do something. The road race mindset introduces a few destructive incentives, in my opinion. First, it puts too much focus on doing nothing but opening locks, with or without actually solving the puzzles. The rush to guess answers and open locks before Issue 4 was even sent is sort of a commentary on the community mindset: Opening locks by any means possible is the first order of business. Second, and more important to me, there are a lot of people at a disadvantage where time is of the essence. In Volume 3, I think that every issue has been proclaimed 'solved' or 'put to bed' before a good number of people have even received their issue. Another example was Mansa Musa, where the contest was 'won' before a lot of people had a chance to open their envelopes. In addition to people who have unreliable mail, there are others who have responsibilities that prevent them from dropping everything when an issue hits the mailbox. I honestly believe that the prizes or incentives for being the first person to do something, whether as a physical prize or your name in lights, are not won on a level playing field. At the very least, the vault shouldn't go live until maybe 4 weeks after the issue is sent. Doing so would give people with slow mail or inflexible responsibilities/commitments more time to digest the issue. I truly thought it was perfect that the 3.1 padlocks didn't go up until 3.2 was sent. That gave everyone a chance to read the issue and work the puzzles to some kind of solution at their own pace without worrying about the right answer or 'unlocking' anything. At the end of the day, what I wish I could see more of on this forum is discussion of something other than getting answers to puzzles. I think there is a lot of great stuff that could use equal time, e.g., identifying the sources of the personals, researching alchemy and how it might apply to the story, other flights of fancy. Unfortunately, features other than puzzles seem to get little or no attention. In my opinion, that's because there's no reward for working them out. I think most of the puzzles have been interesting and well-crafted, but I agree with comments above about us basically being walked thru them with the hints disclosed by the symbols that let us know something is a puzzle and by the padlocks themselves in terms of giving us the number of letters (and sometimes the right number of words) we need to be shooting for. So, that's my contribution to the 1960's loaf of bread. Though I think a Twinkie would be a better choice, since it woud still be edible 56 years later PS, FWIW, I have extremely fast mail service and a flexible schedule. What I've said above is what I think would be fair to people who don't and what I think would improve the C&C experience.
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Post by lucasscooter on Nov 26, 2016 20:56:38 GMT -5
Personally, I wish MPC would ditch anything related to 'first' to do something. The road race mindset introduces a few destructive incentives, in my opinion. First, it puts too much focus on doing nothing but opening locks, with or without actually solving the puzzles. The rush to guess answers and open locks before Issue 4 was even sent is sort of a commentary on the community mindset: Opening locks by any means possible is the first order of business. Second, and more important to me, there are a lot of people at a disadvantage where time is of the essence. In Volume 3, I think that every issue has been proclaimed 'solved' or 'put to bed' before a good number of people have even received their issue. [snip] At the end of the day, what I wish I could see more of on this forum is discussion of something other than getting answers to puzzles. I think there is a lot of great stuff that could use equal time, e.g., identifying the sources of the personals, researching alchemy and how it might apply to the story, other flights of fancy. Unfortunately, features other than puzzles seem to get little or no attention. In my opinion, that's because there's no reward for working them out. So, that's my contribution to the 1960's loaf of bread. Though I think a Twinkie would be a better choice, since it woud still be edible 56 years later [snip] Couldn't have put it better myself (clearly, since my thoughts are a veritable novel and yours are much clearer and more concise )! As you said to me in a PM, "I love love love the rabbit holes -- th[ey're] as much fun as the puzzles!" And there are a lot of rabbit holes just calling to be jumped down. I originally was sharing random trivia tidbits I'd come across with everyone I spoke to on this forum (you can find some of my posts on some of the puzzle threads), but quickly became discouraged when it appeared I was the only one that liked them. Regardless of the volumes, there are so many creative and "learning" opportunities, as well (see the Legends and Lore and User Created Puzzles sections). Reading Todd and Eleduar's ghost stories, brushing up on Somerton Man again (I've always been fascinated with the case), creating puzzles, getting lost in lists of evil eye talismans, and creating way too many alternate More Equal Citizens all meant more to me than solving the puzzles. As the age old saying says, "It's the journey, not the destination." And good call on the Twinkie. Since we're going back to the time of the Cold War, it's important to buy foods that would last through a nuclear winter.
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Post by k80 on Nov 28, 2016 10:01:51 GMT -5
I agree completely with points 2 an 3. For point 1, more story would be awesome, but only as something uncovered after much effort on my part. I want to unearth things like an archaeologist....slowly and gently. A good juicy epilogue would be a fantastic reward after issue 4. In the first two volumes, story was advanced by way of puzzle solutions. You had to solve the puzzle for a message that told you what was happening. It was nice.
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Post by centaurofattn on Nov 28, 2016 10:36:11 GMT -5
Volumes I & II did have a great story. It also encouraged me to actually read the entire newspaper where admittedly I didn't read all of Volume III cover to cover (though I may over winter break).
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